Transcript
Tom everybody welcome to impact theory. You are here my friends, because you believe that human potential is nearly limitless, but you know that having potential is not the same as actually doing something with it. Our goal with this show and company is to introduce you to the people and ideas that will help you actually execute on your dreams.
All right. Today’s guest is a human lie: detector who has dedicated her life to cracking the code on interesting human behavior, a certified fraud, examiner body, language expert and author of’human lie detection’ and’body language 101′. She has literally written the book on reading people. She has traveled the world as a speaker presenting her findings to prestigious universities and fortune 500 companies she’s been featured on npr.
The today show the wall street journal and a ton of other media outlets, saying that doesn’t even scratch the surface of what makes her so special. This self described recovering awkward person didn’t just read a few books call herself an expert and start blogging. She founded her own research lab conducted hundreds, if not thousands, of her own studies and as the lead researcher at the science of people she is amassed. What is arguably one of the most arresting sets of sciencebacked insights into human behavior that I have ever seen.
Every video every article, every page of her books, will leave your jaw hanging wide open with her transformative usability. She is transparent, super authentic and never afraid to ask an inappropriately intimate question for the benefit of all of us. All of that gives her work an irreverent sparkle that makes it truly captivating whether you want to understand yourself or others.
Better she’s got the datadriven goods you’ve been looking for. Please help me in welcoming the woman who used to hide in the bathroom to avoid people at parties and is now the most captivating person in most any room. The author of the enthralling book’captivate, the science of succeeding with people’ vanessa van edwards welcome.
It is so good to have you on the show vanessa that was the perfect hug tom. Yes, it was wonderful vanessa, yes tom, we discussed it beforehand, vanessa yeah. We discussed it tom, which I think is important vanessa.
I like practicing hugs and handshakes just because you have that awkward moment. That’s like’are! We going to handshake hug side, hug’ tom, yes vanessa, so that was perfect tom. What was the other one? Squiggle vanessa, a squiggle tom yeah that was vanessa yeah tom. I had not heard of that, but as soon as you showed me what it was, it was like’okay’ vanessa.
Yes, a squiggle is typically two women, but not always tom. Yes, vanessa, a squiggle is a moving hug. It’s like a moving cuddle.
It’s like when people go. Hug’ooooh’, that’s a squiggle tom yeah vanessa. Do you know what I mean tom? There are a lot of squiggles in my life.
I’m going to be really honest. I’ve witnessed them vanessa. You know, I think you might like it tom. You think vanessa.
It’s like a bear. Hug, but there’s movement in it: it’s like a dance tom vanessa. We could squiggle at the end. If you want tom, I will give it a shot that is a’don’t knock.
It til you’ve tried it’ vanessa, so we try it yeah and we should also come up with a name for that hug that where someone hugs and they go, the pat pat pat pat pat pat pat pat pat tom yeah, I do that one, a lot vanessa. You do that one tom I do that one vanessa, that’s a mantoman tom yeah vanessa. That’s a patty cake! Hug tom I’ve got a weird thing with my wife.
My wife will just set her hand on me. For me, my hand has to be moving to show attention, which is partly why I think I do the pat on the back thing. Then I’ve seen that made fun of so vanessa. Well, the thing is so patting from a nonverbal perspective.
It’s an interesting nonverbal move. I don’t know if you yeah tom, I’m a little tense now vanessa, I know. Well, I should tell you you should know tom. Yes, please, vanessa patting if it’s done from above.
It’s often a dominance. Gesture tom, okay, vanessa, think about a dog tom yeah vanessa. What do we do? We pat a dog’s head, think about a child. We say’good job good boy’.
If it’s done equally like’oh wow, it’s good to see you’, it’s not so bad tom right vanessa, just be careful you’re, not like the tom! No, that I don’t do. Vanessa right, you’ll notice that it’s actually quite a demeaning gesture. There are certain politicians you might have seen out there that will tom quite a few vanessa yeah, just a few. They will pat, they will pat on the upper shoulders or on the upper back.
It’s a way of saying’good boy’, or’good, girl’ tom, interesting vanessa, it’s a very subtle, nonverbal, cue, but usually the equal pat, which I think I don’t know. What do you think about patty cake? That’s not man enough tom yeah! I don’t. I’ve never had any vanessa. Your facial expression doesn’t look so good about it.
Tom yeah. I’ve never had the instinct to do that, but the one handed, I would say, 90 % of my hugs – incorporate a pat vanessa, incorporate a pat tom yeah vanessa. So maybe that’s the bro hug tom yeah vanessa, the’brug’ tom the’brug’ well said vanessa, let’s just tom. Indeed vanessa.
I like naming everything I name car turns I name hugs. I like creating words tom all right, so let’s get into that because it’s actually fascinating. What I love is that so my core belief about human existence is that you can learn virtually anything vanessa, yeah tom you’ve come a long way from being the awkward person.
Do you think people can learn anything vanessa? I think people can learn anything. I think, however, you have a spectrum of how much you can improve. Let’s say, for example, sports are the easiest way to think about this. Let’s say, for example, you are a very lightweight compact male under five foot.
You would make a great jockey right, you’d be great at riding horses. If you’re, small and compact tom right vanessa, could you learn to be a basketball player, 100 %, but your ability or your percent improvement, is only going to be able to improve so much you’re going to have to work much harder for that compared to say a Six foot, seven man who’s going to have to work a little bit less hard to be able to dunk shots because he just is closer to the net tom right vanessa. I think, if you think about it that way, it’s how much work do you have to do to get there tom? Do you think that part of why you’ve been able to get as good as you have with breaking this stuff down, because you had to learn it or do you think there’s some another innate skill that you have that’s allowed for that vanessa? I think it’s because and maybe other recovering awkward people out. There will feel this way if you are a recovering awkward person – and I don’t mean introvert introverts – do not have to be awkward.
Although I am introverted, we are very good at observing. What happens is. Is we see interactions in very black or white ways if you are naturally charismatic or naturally good with people, you can walk into a room? You don’t even have to think about a conversation starter, whereas if you’re awkward, a room looks like either a battlefield or a playground, depending on your mentality, if you see a room like a battleground or a playground, you’re instantly looking for who’s on your team you’re. Looking for patterns you’re, looking for verbal weapons, you’re looking for different kinds of things than someone who will just walk into a room and naturally have it tom right vanessa, I think that what’s helped is that I tend to see every interaction that way which has helped Me study it in a formulaic way, a little different tom.
What drew you to the science? The study I mean, not a lot of people start their own research lab vanessa. I was a journalist, so I was just writing stories. I loved science I from a very young age. My parents encouraged the academic side, the book smarts, the iq.
I think I totally forgot about the people smart side, the pq thing I had this ability to read 20 page academic studies and find some usable nugget. I started to write about that for different blogs and journals out there. I realized that the one thing that could differentiate me anyone could write an article about science, the one thing that could change what I was writing was. If I tested things on myself, I either became a human guinea pig or I was able to actually do research in a real world, because most studies are based on 20 college seniors, who want academic credit for a psychology class they’re, not representative of the whole population.
Tom right vanessa, I thought if there was one thing that could differentiate this article from every other journalist, it would be adding my own take on it. It was actually a differentiator. It came from a place of trying to differentiate my work from other journalists out there.
Then, of course, a personal need that I had to try to solve people which I don’t know if it’s possible, but I’m certainly still trying tom that’s interesting’to solve people’. What do you mean by that vanessa? I loved in math class, where you’d be working on a math problem and the teacher would be like’okay here’s a formula for you’. It was like being given a cipher.
It was like the most powerful thing. I thought what if there was a cipher for people, what if there was a way a formula for people? I have something that I called a matrix. It was a little bit different than the keanu reeves’matrix’ tom right vanessa, which I believe that every person has a cipher.
They have a set of of values that you can solve about them, that if you turn it in the right ways, you can figure out how to figure out their motivations, how to figure out their values, how to speak to them so that they’ll listen. How to make them feel loved, that’s the closest I’ve come to actually solving people. It’s the only way that I’ve found to interact successful tom when you say’solved’, though you’re saying to be able to have a useful interaction or vanessa to not be so baffled by people’s choices. Tom.
Okay, that’s interesting vanessa! I don’t know if this is a pain point for you, but I was constantly feeling like I didn’t understand where people were coming from or they would be making choices, and I didn’t understand why, especially with friendships, I found that if I can figure out how they’re Coded how they’re wired no longer their decisions and their actions become baffling tom right, so give us some of those things. In fact, let me you – and I were talking about this vanessa yeah tom. Let me break it down for you at home hi. The way that I normally prepare for an interview is very different than the way that I will go through a book for a book review started the book on an international flight.
So I had plenty of time and started it just to read it as part of my interview prep for this interview, then man like really fast. I was like’whoa that was a cool insight’. Then that was another one and then rapidly it just turned into a book review. I just went in all the different points and how they add up and just all the things I wanted in my own life and started, and this is what I’d really like you to talk about now, you start breaking down what motivates people what’s their love language? What’s their primary value, that kind of stuff vanessa yeah tom, I started going’oh, my god like what’s mine’.
First of all, I didn’t even know mine vanessa, yes tom. I found it very weird because I consider myself super self aware vanessa, yeah tom. I found it so much easier to identify my wife’s vanessa, always tom than to identify my own vanessa, yeah tom. What are the key things to understanding someone else or yourself vanessa? Yes, I like to think of people a little bit like an onion in that there’s different layers tom.
It makes you cry and you don’t want to cut it vanessa exactly but tastes delicious once cooked okay. So the outside layer, I think, is the easiest one to solve. That’s the one. We start with tom all right vanessa.
This is the big five personality traits and there’s a lot of personality research out there, the only personality, science, that’s actually backed it’s used by academic institutions, it’s called ocean or the big five tom right vanessa. This is someone’s openness. So how adventurous are they someone’s conscientiousness? How organized they are someone’s extraversion, that’s the one that we all know how they like being around people agreeableness, so how they work on teams if they default to’yes’ or default to’no’, and we can talk about that. One.
If you want then neuroticism, which is the one that no one wants to talk about tom yeah vanessa neuroticism – is my favorite, it’s how someone approaches worry. Those are the easiest to solve. Actually, research has found that I could look in your wallet, for example, or I could open your bedside table and probably solve a lot of your personality traits tom wow. I so wish I had my wallet vanessa.
I wish could do that. You don’t have it tom, not on me vanessa, that’s bad tom. What would you be looking for? Because I would give it to you in a heartbeat that would be so fun vanessa.
We are doing a study right now. Actually, the science of people, where I want people to take pictures of a couple different assets in their life, one their car trunk by the way. If anyone watching wants to send me pictures of these things, I’m happy to analyze them their car trunk tom. Do you want me to tell you what mine looks like vanessa yeah tom it’s empty only because my wife’s pressure is unending, otherwise it would be a filthy mess vanessa.
That tells me that you are a little higher in agreeableness, because you want to make your wife happy tom. You are so right. I am extremely high in agreeableness vanessa, yes, tom, absolutely vanessa. That fact that that was your first reason tom, I didn’t even mean to let that slip out by the way vanessa, yes, tom, I’m just trying to be honest about the fact that it’s clean now, but only because of my wife vanessa.
Oh now, this interview’s getting good, yes, okay, so because that’s your motivation, right tom right vanessa, that was your motivation there, your trunk, your medicine cabinet, and it doesn’t have to you – can hide your prescriptions. I just want to see how it’s organized and how it’s laid out. What’s in there tom yeah, I don’t really have a medicine cabinet. It’s stuffed in a drawer vanessa, stuffed in a drawer tom, randomly vanessa, then maybe medium in conscientiousness conscientiousness is how organized or how much you like, routine tom, okay vanessa.
It’s like people who are really high in conscientiousness. This is me, I find making a todo list like a sport. If I was an olympic athlete like I could make todo lists, I could be a champion in this tom wow vanessa.
I will put things on my todo list just for the pleasure of checking them off tom nice vanessa, someone’s high in conscientious tom. We got someone over there vanessa. I got you, we are the same. Yeah like alphabetizing gives me an adrenaline rush tom wow.
Some people jump out of airplanes. You alphabetize vanessa alphabetizing, like a bunch of books by color and by author name, my goodness tom wow vanessa. Anyway, that’s high in conscientious low in conscientiousness means you’re much more easy, going you’re much more spontaneous.
You feel that the creative process is going with the flow and actually routine sort of boxes you in, if your medicine, drawer or medicine cabinet, is a little bit more haphazard and you don’t really have a system to it. I would gets you’re either medium/low in conscientiousness tom. Well, what’s interesting, I’m very low, I’m about as low as you can get on the conscientiousness scale – vanessa. Yes, okay tom! It is only because my wife is muddling your ability to read vanessa – that’s right tom, because she forces me to hide it in a drawer vanessa, yeah yeah tom.
Otherwise it would just be left out vanessa everywhere everywhere, yeah, okay, so low in conscientiousness tom, very vanessa. Then tom, I hate that name by the way, vanessa, conscientious tom, because that one made me feel weird about being low, because I feel like I’m a conscientious person, vanessa yeah tom, I think about other people and what their needs are vanessa. Yes, it’s funny that you mention that language language is a serious issue.
For example, the book is now gotten picked up in ten other languages, tom, congratulations by the way, vanessa. It’s a problem. Thank you.
We’re trying to figure out words, for example, in western cultures, there is an ideal personality type. You will notice that every romantic comedy the woman is the ideal personality type for women, and the man is usually the ideal personality type for a man in western cultures. For women it is high in conscientiousness, that’s sort of her funny quirk, she’s, really organized and doesn’t like to be spontaneous tom, yeah yeah vanessa, a high in agreeableness so’yeah, whatever you want sweetie’, either medium or high in neuroticism, so kind of a warrior. But it’s cute and endearing tom right, vanessa, very spontaneous and extroverted and bubbly and high in openness, adventurous and imaginative.
That’s like the perfect diode. The problem is when you talk about neuroticism. Neuroticism should not be a negative word, but it is considered negative because then you’re, called’a type’ or’controlling’ tom right vanessa, it’s funny language is actually a huge issue.
Conscientiousness does not mean that you don’t care about people tom right vanessa. It just means that routine is not your love, like some people anyway, at the lab, we’re trying to figure out if we can guess people’s personality types or solve their matrix based on their different assets and their habits, tom you’re doing good. So far, vanessa yeah we’re going to ask people for that and then the funny one is what’s on your walls. Tom we’ve got the michael jordan flu game vanessa, okay tom, which is probably my most meaningful piece of art: vanessa: okay, tom, it’s all art.
So I guess we’ll start with that: vanessa: okay, tom, then mostly movies matrix, has like three or four appearances in the house: vanessa, yeah tom, then that’s pretty much it vanessa. What they say is that this is a research. According to sam gosling, he wrote a great book called’snoop’, which is, if you’re a snooper.
This is the book for you. Sam gosling found that high neurotics use more motivational quotes tom nice vanessa. I am a high neurotic. I am definitely a worrier.
By the way, you know if you’re high, neurotic or low neurotic, if you’re, really good at whatif scenarios high neurotics, we love pros and cons lists. We can think through every worst case scenario. Ever whereas low neurotics, they say things like’it’ll all be fine’ which to a low neurotic is like the worst thing that you can say, because we believe that worrying is like an investment account.
Do you know what I mean the more that I worry the less likelihood it will happen tom right, that is interesting. Vanessa, high neurotics, actually love motivational quotes because it’s like an external regulator for their internal world tom wow vanessa. I have a lot of motivational quotes in my office space you didn’t have any, which makes me think that you’re not very high neurotic tom.
I am super low, neurotic vanessa, ah okay tom, but I’m insanely chemically impacted by motivational stuff. I keep a list of quotes that I find motivational or empowering. I follow a bunch of instagram accounts that are all motivational vanessa. Your list of quotes.
Is it in a book? Is it covered or is it for display tom, it’s in evernote, vanessa? Okay, so that means that you are medium or low neurotic, because high neurotics we can, I get a little sciencey tom yeah, please vanessa, okay, high neurotics carry a special form of a certain gene. It’s called the serotonin transporter. Gene serotonin is a really important chemical in our body.
It’s what keeps us calm, it’s what keeps us nice and stable, for example, if you’re driving and all of a sudden someone almost hits you, they don’t hit you, but they almost hit you tom right vanessa. Your adrenaline goes, your cortisol goes and you’re like’oh. We almost got in a car accident’ a low neurotic, like you will begin to produce serotonin.
So your body goes’whew, we’re okay’ tom right, vanessa’everything’s fine’. Then, a few minutes later you’re back to your music everything’s, fine, a high neurotic like me, has a harder time producing serotonin. We have a longer form of this transporter gene we produce less serotonin and more slowly, which means that my adrenaline and cortisol are pumping for longer than yours. If I’m in the car with you and I’m like’gosh that driver’ you’re like’oh well, he didn’t hit us we’re good now’, I’m still in adrenaline and cortisol, but you’re calm.
What happens is that we as high neurotics, are not as good at self soothing. We tend to have reminders external reminders to tell us to calm down, whereas you as a low neurotic. You don’t need to see it.
You can look at it when you feel like it. When you’re curious you pop up on instagram or twitter, when you feel like it, whereas I want to have them everywhere to remind me, I’m okay, tom wow, that is really interesting. One of the things that I found so awesome about your book was one.
It was teaching me about myself, but two. It was teaching me about lisa in the relationship, the ones where you were like’okay. This is probably where you want to be in agreement where you’re both like the same’ vanessa, yes tom’then.
These are the ones where you want to balance’ and you had talked about neuroticism and wanting to balance each other out vanessa, yeah tom. We balance each other out, so I’m really low neurotic and she’s very high neurotic, not in the woody allen way, but like the way you’re talking about vanessa yeah tom, where she’s just like vanessa, I get it. I know what you’re saying tom she’ll go through.
The thousand ways that this could go wrong and just be have a much harder time self soothing when you said’self soothing’, that’s what’s really interesting, vanessa yeah, why it’s important to balance you don’t have to, but there’s actually studies that show that certain personality traits are better When they’re matching versus opposites high neurotics get a bad rap, everyone’s’ugh they’re the worrier they’re, the one who’s always like. You know overthinking things’, but you actually need to have both. The reason for this is because you’re a low neurotic you tom, are wonderful in a crisis. If there’s something bad happening or you need to get things done, you’re the one with the level head, you know it’s all going to be.
Okay, you can stay steady. The course high neurotics prevent crises from happening in the first place. Tom right vanessa. What’s funny is high neurotics need external reminders to keep them calm.
We like to see our todo list or our pros and cons we like to have our rock nearby us at our side, whereas low neurotics like to have external reminders of things, they need to take care of tom, yes, vanessa, right because they don’t have the internal Alarm clock: that’s constantly screaming at them tom vanessa. I joke that the piles scream at me from the floor because I want to get them, whereas you might not see them tom, I literally don’t see them vanessa, don’t see them. I know tom. I keep my regular daytoday stuff in my travel case, because I know if I don’t and I travel it will never make it.
I just won’t. Remember it vanessa, yeah yeah, that’s a workaround for you! This is what we’re talking about here is knowing how you are wired instead of fighting it tom, that’s interesting, because I’m a big believer in fight anything that doesn’t work for you, but you talk about vanessa. What if we talk about optimize tom, okay, vanessa, I think what I see a lot, and this is with personal development.
I’m a self help addict. I love every personal development book. I love self help and transformation. The problem is, is that if we feel like we can change everything, we also might not optimize for how we are naturally wired tom, interesting vanessa.
The way that I like to think about it is every step in the book. I teach a scientific principle. I tell a story: teach you the scientific principle. Then I give you three steps almost always step number one.
Is you figure out how you’re wired before you work on someone else? It’s like a flight. They always tell you, put your oxygen mask on before you fix someone else’s same thing, figure out your own wiring. First, you figured out that you will not remember so by packing in that day pack you’ve now taken out that worry fixed that problem, and now you don’t have to worry about it as opposed to trying to take 15 different classes on how to be more of A worrier tom right, fair enough, fair enough vanessa.
Do you know what I mean? I think that figuring out how your spouse is wired and not trying to change them, but rather trying to set up systems in your home or systems for your business partner or things for your friends to know how they’re wired another example is my good friend anna Lauren, if she’s watching she is a worrier. Also, if I give her too many choices, she’ll get choice: paralysis, instead of trying to teach her how to make choices for herself and go through a whole. What’s paradox of choice, lesson plan for her? I know that if I want to go out to dinner with her I’m better off giving her one time and only two restaurant choices, I know that she likes to see the menu because she’s high conscientious.
If I want to go to dinner, usually I will as an act of service say’hey al you want to go out for dinner on monday at seven. I think we could do thai here’s the menu link or we could do sushi here’s the menu link’. She will get back to me really fast. If not what happens is every day she goes’oh yeah, but I’m not sure about this.
But what about this restaurant’? We end up rushing on the plans last minute tom. Is this a two way street with your friends? I mean obviously they know you, they know what you do so they know they’re in the matrix vanessa. They know they’re in the matrix yeah tom. Do you walk through them’here’s how you rate on ocean’? Do you show them that stuff vanessa yeah? First of all, my closest friends know to be my friend.
You know that every time you hang out with me, it might be an experiment tom. You have a quote that I love’i would rather live in hard truth than ignorant bliss’ vanessa yeah tom you’re, really into radical honesty, vanessa. I am tom. How does that play out in your marriage? How does that play out in your friendships, vanessa, yeah? In my marriage I got very lucky.
I married the most honest man I ever met. He is very direct already. He actually has helped me in that just very directness.
With friends it’s hard. I had to make the choice a long time ago when I first started this work, especially with lie: detection lie. Detection is a skill that it’s a blessing and a curse a little bit. Just because you see inconvenient things right, you see things you didn’t expect to see tom about yourself or vanessa, no usually about other people.
I think you see in the personality matrix, you see things about yourself. You might not like as much with lie. Detection.
You tend to see things about other people that you might not find as convenient tom convenient. That’s very nice vanessa. Yes, I find this convenient because what happens is – and this is what happened at the very beginning of honing, this skill and leveraging it is. I started to see friends who were not only lying to me but lying to themselves.
I had to make choice. Was I either going to have fewer high quality friends or less quality, but more quantity friends? This was right at that stage, where I also was trying to figure out what kind of friendships did I want to have on social media. It’s the same question that we all have to ask ourselves.
I think of social media friendships like cotton candy. I call these’cotton candy friendships’ cotton. Candy friendships are great. These are the people that you love.
Seeing at a party you see them’ohh’, you do a squiggle you’re, so excited to see them they’re. Also the’woo’ girls, you know’woo’, you see them and they get excited tom’s like’i. Don’t know what that is’ tom, I have zero’woo’ friends, vanessa, that’s, okay! Yeah! You get it! I’m sure you’ve seen it before they’re really fun.
To hang out with there’s, not a lot of substance. There there’s not a nutrition tom right vanessa. You wouldn’t text them. If you were going through something hard tom, yeah vanessa, you wouldn’t call them if something happened to them, but it’s a fun, exciting friendship.
The thing is: is you eventually need to have a meal? Cotton candy is okay, every once in a while, but if you have too much of it, your teeth begin to rot from it they ache from the sugar they give a sugar headache. I think that it’s about what are the friends that give you nutrition, like the brisket friends tom right vanessa, then which of those friends that are kind of the surface ones. That was a big decision I had to make tom now. You’ve talked about breaking up with friends, vanessa yeah tom.
How do you sculpt that garden of friendship, vanessa, it’s so hard? I think that adult friendships is. You know how, when you’re a teenager everyone’s talking about bullying and cyberbullying. I think that as adults, this adult friendship issue is the next frontier of talking about.
How do we court friends? How do we build a friendship when it’s not romantic? How do we break up with a friendship when it’s been too long? The biggest thing that happens with friendships is they do go stale, it’s a very weird thing to say, but there are people, I’m sure you can think of someone in your life where every time their number pops up on a text message: you’re like’ugh, it’s been a While I better call them’ or you see them out of convenience or out of location, I think that those are the kind of friendships that really drain. You there’s actually a study that was done on ambivalent relationships, tom yeah. This is so interesting, vanessa yeah, I’m thinking about ambivalence, a lot toxic people we get it.
We all understand that we want to get rid of toxic people. That’s more obvious. The real danger, I think, is the ambivalent relationships.
These ambivalent relationships are the people where either you don’t know how you stand with them. You don’t know if they like you or not, they’re. Also the people where you don’t know if you really enjoy hanging out with them or not. Have you ever had that tom? Yes, vanessa, you’re like’is, this going to be fun.
Was that fun is this fun’? Those are the ones that take the more energy they’re, also the more dangerous ones, tom yeah vanessa they tend to creep in and stay in tom. The whole notion of frenemies. I find really really intriguing.
This is something certainly that I had dealt with in my life vanessa, yeah tom. It was weird to me how, until I read that that it didn’t register, why that would be so insidious vanessa. What the science says they did. A research study with police officers, they asked police officers to identify the amount of toxic people in their workplace and the amount of ambivalent people.
They found that the police officers, who had more ambivalent relationships were sick. More often had less happiness at work and didn’t like their job as much police officers who had toxic people just think about that for a second. The reason for this is because, if you have a toxic person, boundaries are easy. They ask you to go out to lunch and you’re like’no thanks’ right.
You know it’s a’no thanks’, whereas if an ambivalent person asks you out to lunch or asks you to their birthday party or asks you to work on something, it takes this mental energy. Where you have this thing, where you’re like’ugh, will it be good? Would I rather eat alone at my desk, or would I rather have lunch with this person’ when it’s not always easy? That’s an incredible drain on our emotional energy. If you’re an introvert or an ambivert, an ambivert is someone who is kind of splits between extroversion and introversion, tom yeah vanessa, your energy is finite and our mental space is finite. This is something that I did not realize until much more recently, I thought that mental space was endless.
You could learn forever. You could think about things forever, but actually we only have a certain amount of mental time every day. If we are dedicating that to trying to figure out if someone likes us or not, which is a very important thing, we all like to be liked, whether we admit it or not, that I think, is a waste of mental energy. Why would we want to spend it towards that? That’s why I think ambivalent people are more dangerous tom.
Do you have a checklist, I’m thinking back to the people that managed to become frenemies in my own life, it’s kind of scary. How long it took me to be able to put that label on them? Vanessa, yeah, yes, tom, to wake up to the fact that either they always were, or the relationship had evolved to that vanessa like years right tom years vanessa. I know I don’t have a checklist, it’s actually just one simple question tom all right, let’s hear it vanessa, are you ever doubting that they’re really happy for you, tom wow, that cuts right to the heart of it? Vanessa? That’s it that happens. Quite often there are these people who make these very passive aggressive comments where you’re like’was that nice, or was that mean’.
If you’re ever questioning that, that means they are not truly happy for you or if you have a piece of really good news, a really true good friend will mirror and match that excitement with you. Someone who’s not as happy for you will come in with dream, killer questions. You know: dream killers, tom, oh yeah, vanessa, yeah, dream, killer. Questions are when they question your success.
They doubt the success they think about. All the negatives dream. Killers are not always bad. I have dream killers in my life and I call them when I need someone to poke holes in a business idea, I’ll pitch them because they’re great practice.
I know that they are not the people that I go to when I have something I’m truly excited about. That’s the only question you have to ask yourself and it might be an inconvenient truth. Don’t answer it off the cuff, don’t answer it really quickly, try to think of all the times in the last six months that you’ve seen them and shared something. Did you feel like they were as happy as you were about your happiness, tom yeah? This is one of those things that has made a big impact in my life, because you can very slowly, especially in business, find yourself in a situation where you don’t know who to trust, and maybe it’s the psychic energy, like you were talking about emotional energy.
For me, it became a question of emotional safety where, when I know you’re my enemy, I don’t feel emotionally vulnerable. Oddly enough, even though I know you may actively be out to get me vanessa, yeah tom, I can handle that vanessa yeah yeah tom. It’s when I’m giving you my neck, if you will enough and every now and then you actually take a swipe at it – vanessa, yeah tom, it’s like’ugh’ vanessa! That’s when you lose sleep tom yeah, yes, literally vanessa, you sit in bed and you rerun all the things. They’ve said – or you said, you worry about all the things that could potentially happen.
We talk about psychic energy. I actually think that we are. This is going to sound so weird.
I actually think that we pick up on more chemically than we realize tom yeah talk to me about that vanessa. Okay, so I don’t believe in psychics and I don’t believe in psychic energy, but I do believe that things happen beyond our conscious awareness. In this sense, there was a study that was done that looked at fear. What they did is they took participants, they had them, wear, sweat, pads, absorbent, sweat, pads and run on the treadmill they collected sweat from these people running on the treadmill.
Then they had participants. Wear sweat, pads and jump out of an airplane for a first time, skydiving experience, they had sweat, pads that were just treadmill, sweat pads and they first skydiving sweat pads same sweat, but is it really then they had participants in a lab sit in an fmri machine. So their brain was being scanned and smell kind of gross both pads.
They did not know what they were smelling. They had no idea what they were smelling. They found that, when participants smelled the fear, sweat pads, the skydiving, sweat pads, their own fear response activated their brain tom wow vanessa.
That means that somehow I think that we can smell emotions. If you are with someone and they are either they do not mean well. For you, or they are planning on taking a swipe at your neck, you somehow smell that threat. Even though consciously your brain is going’they didn’t say anything they didn’t do anything their body.
Language is okay, it seems all okay’. The other part of your brain, the animal part of your brain, which is firing in fear, response or threat response, is going’no watch out’. That’s what keeps you up at night. Is your conscious brain wrestling with the unconscious part of your brain.
I think that’s what, when we talk about being psychic or having premonitions, I think that that’s actually what’s happening, we’re smelling or picking up on things that we don’t even realize tom yeah, that’s crazy. Just for clarity’s sake, when I say’psychic energy’, I did not mean’psychic’ like a psychicpsychic. I also think that’s nuts vanessa, okay tom, that is incredibly interesting.
Vanessa I was going to add. The other aspect of this is facial structure – tom, yes, vanessa, there’s a part in the book that had tom I’m obsessed with this vanessa, were you able to sort of see the faces? Were you able to see them tom? Yes, I like to think that I’m like jedi level at visualizing vanessa, cool, okay tom, just from the amount of interviewing that I’ve done. I am totally obsessed this notion of how much and it scares me, because I think I actually have like a. I definitely have resting bitch face.
Let’s start with that vanessa yeah tom! On top of that, when I would explain to people what is’hey you’re walking ina dark alley – and you turn around – and you see this little old lady and she seems so sweet – you thin slice immediately, not a threat’. My brain immediately used the example’but. If you turn around and see me you’re going to get freaked out’, I thought’i have a face that I would thin slice poorly’ vanessa – oh my god tom. I would not thin slice myself and be like’what a loving kind, individual’ vanessa, okay, okay, tom yeah vanessa.
I don’t think you’re wrong tom see that’s what I’m saying vanessa. I don’t think you’re wrong tom. This is what you do vanessa, I’m sorry, I’m so sorry. I know tom, no fair enough, vanessa, inconvenient truth, tom! Yes, vanessa! Let me explain why tom please vanessa! There is some evidence and again there’s a lot of research on this, but I find it fascinating about in the womb.
Babies are exposed to mothers’ hormones that could be testosterone that could be estrogen. That could be any different variant of things. Those change or turn on different genes in the baby, for example, if a baby was exposed to a lot of testosterone, prenatally they’re, going to develop more masculinized feature, both men and women. We know a face is very masculine if they have a very, very square jaw.
If they have the presence of stubble, if they have flat eyebrows and/or slightly hooded eyebrows, that’s your face. Okay, tom sounds wonderful vanessa. No! No! It’s a good thing! It’s a good thing, because it’s a very masculinized face tom right vanessa.
That is 100 % right tom. In the book I have computer graphics of incompetent faces to competent faces, not dominant faces to dominant, not competent, to competent, and then I think it’s not trustworthy to trustworthy vanessa right tom. You fall very high on the dominance scale. If someone turned around and you were in a back alley, you look very masculinized, which means you have a lot of testosterone and people believe men with more testosterone are going to be more powerful, have a temper all these things.
It’s about the shape of your jaw. It’s about the hood of your eyebrows, then the presence of stubble and you wear stubble vanessa, yeah tom. This is a good thing. I think this is a good thing vanessa.
Does it help that if the little old lady turns around – and I actually worry about it – I distance my tom yeah vanessa, like if I find myself – and I know this woman is going to have a heart attack if she turns around, I start slowing down or I’ll walk over the side and fast, so she can see’hI’ tom yeah yeah vanessa. I try to do my neutral goofy face tom. Let me see it, how is it vanessa? It’s very good! Tom, it’s the arched eyebrows. I try to half smile. I feel like such a dumb ass vanessa, no no tom, but I’m like’i have seen photos’.
I used to do speech and debate in high school vanessa yeah tom one time I crushed it. I was so excited. I got the review back and it was like’dude.
What is wrong? Try not to look so angry’. I was like’what’, I literally, and so I readed some and they’re like’yeah dude. You like put your head down and then look up. You look like a serial killer’ vanessa.
Yeah yeah tom, I was like’what’ literally I go in the bathroom I tilt my head down and I look up vanessa. Oh yeah tom, I thought’oh’, I’m like’what the hell’ vanessa do that to a camera, because that is yeah tom. That’s when I realized’aw man’ vanessa yeah.
That’s intense, I’m like’ha ha it’s fine’ yeah, but now you know why you know it’s the shape of your jaw and your face tom yeah vanessa. What you did is perfect. You optimized how you were naturally wired.
Okay right show me your: what did you call it? Your goofy silly face tom my goofy neutral face vanessa. Can I see your goofy neutral face again? Okay, you were right. Okay, can I explain why this works tom, please vanessa, from a center of professional okay. So when we raise our eyebrows up, it is the universal sign of interest or engagement.
For example, if I were in a bar and go you would know what I meant tom right vanessa. If I were to be listening and be like’oh’, you would know that means. I am literally trying to see more tom right vanessa. It’s the implication of that with your eyebrows up.
It changes the shape of that hooded. Look when you’re like this. This is a very high testosterone when your eyebrows are hooded. When you push them up, not only does it show openness, engagement, curiosity say’hI’, it also takes away the hooding.
You also slightly opened your mouth a little bit that also softens your jaw in a way that takes your face and just makes it more open. I think that this is something I think that this is actually a very good thing, because I think it’s part of the reason why you were so successful tom wow vanessa. We like people who are very powerful, who have high testosterone.
We like it from both men and women. Your look shows intensity, it shows strength. It shows power, never be angry at how you are wired.
Your genetics, how your face looks because that is, I think, a huge contributor to your success. I feel that way with everyone. We all have things about our face about our personality, about our body that we don’t like.
I think that, if we can frame it, as this has been an aspect or can be an aspect of our success, that’s extremely important. For example, I also have resting bitch face. Can I critique myself tom? Please? Yes, vanessa, like I was critiquing you, so I should critique myself as well. I have resting bitch face and the reason for this is because my features angle downwards at rest.
This is me at rest. I just look terrible right, I’m just like’ugh’, I’m bored and I’m upset. That is because my lips, when they’re at rest angle slightly downwards and my eyes, also angle slightly downwards, even if I’m totally neutral, I angle down, so I know that I can look very, very serious. That has also helped me because I am a science researcher.
It’s very important for me to look like I am taking things seriously as I am tom right vanessa, when I want to be more on or engaged you’ll notice that I actually do my makeup a very specific way. I don’t know if you can see my makeup tom yeah, you angle up vanessa, I angled up tom yup vanessa. I also put my shadow a little bit above my brow bone a little bit above my eye to bring my eyes up tom right vanessa. That is because I know that’s going to make me look a little happier, a little less sad, a little less intense.
This is something that I know about myself, but I don’t think that that’s a bad thing. It just means that I know I have to counteract a little bit tom all right, so I want to go back to radical honesty, vanessa, yes tom. What does that look like? What are you actually saying to your friends in particular vanessa? This means that, instead of making up an excuse, I will just tell them the real reason. I don’t want to do something.
For example, a good friend of mine was like’hey. I have this networking event that I’m throwing it’s with a bunch of women in oregon’. I live in portland’you should definitely come and do a little speaking thing and it will be really great’ instead of me.
Saying’oh, I’m really busy’ or’i don’t have time for it right now’ I was like’hey. I do terribly at really big loud networking events. You don’t want me there. I get really anxious, like it’s really hard for me.
Is there any way that we could do a luncheon instead, where we’re around a table where we can talk in a more quiet environment’ instead of making some excuse, I actually will tell them the real reason why I do or don’t want to do something, and then We try to work around it tom. What does that look like at work vanessa at work? We have a wonderful team, we’re about six people in our lab and then we have 120 science people trainers. Our trainers are body, language trainers and they do my curriculum they’re. In different cities around the world, tom yeah vanessa, basically, what this means is, we have a very direct task management system.
I think that it’s incredibly important with your team to a know, their personality matrix. I know everyone on my team, their personality matrix and also how they like to receive feedback and how they like to brainstorm. For example, let’s say that I have an idea and I want to do a big brainstorming session I like to brainstorm out loud, but I know that two of my team members do not.
They might say to me: if we’re in a big brainstorming sessions, I’m like’any ideas, any ideas’, it’s crickets, they would say to me and they would have complete permission to do’hey vanessa. Would there be any way that you could write down these ideas? Give us about a week to kind of prepare something, and then we could get back together next friday, I’m not really ready to brainstorm right now’, instead of having a really lame drawn out 50 minute session, where no one’s really throwing around any ideas. It’s a much faster way to speak to our natural orientations in the workplace around our team tom talk to me about identifying primary values and what they are, so that you know how to better deal with people vanessa yeah.
I was always fascinated by motivation in the workplace, especially how do you motivate a partner? How do you motivate a colleague? How do you appeal to their interests? I talk about this in the book a little bit. I always thought that with colleagues the biggest motivation was money – salary, perks bonuses. I thought that was sort of most of the reason why you work you hopefully work for a little bit of passion as well, but you’re getting sort of to try to pay the bills. I had one of my employees who was doing an amazing job and I was like’you know what I’m going to give her a raise and a bonus she’s been doing such a good job’.
I had to move around some things budgetwise, but I really wanted to show her how appreciative I was we get together and I say’I’m so excited. I would love to give you a raise and a bonus’. She was like’thanks’. I was like’that’s it’, tom, yeah, vanessa’that’s all’.
Then I discovered this research on resource theory. Resource theory says that every interaction, every relationship is a transaction. I know that sounds really terrible, but actually, it’s a very honest, a very radically honest way of looking at relationships. There are six different resources that we all give and take.
These are different in the love languages. This is resources, one of them is money, and that’s the one that we think about a lot. We talk about it a lot. What I found out is this particular employee.
Her primary value was actually status. Tom how’d. You find that out vanessa.
When I realized she was sort of she had a lackluster response. She was like’oh thanks’ tom literally you do the thing. Lackluster response, you’re feeling a little vanessa, I feel terrible.
I actually feel terrible because I went out of the way to make budget for her tom right vanessa. I also really wanted to thank her for her amazing work when she was not happy. I was like tom, but you had read through not the lie, but she was saying’thank.
You yay’ vanessa, negative nonverbal. I was seeing when we’re talking about nonverbal there’s either microadvantages or micronegatives tom microadvantages, vanessa, microadvantages or micronegatives tom. Can you give me an example, vanessa yeah, a microadvantage is. If you ask a good question, I would be like nodding.
I’d smile I’d be like’oh, that’s great’! I’d widen my eyebrows. Those are all microadvantages, I’m giving you to say’i love that question’ tom, okay, vanessa, a micronegative. This is what you probably pick up on without realizing it are all the things that people do when they don’t like a question. Maybe they lean back.
Maybe they make a’mmm’ face tom right vanessa. Maybe they pinch their eyebrows together? Maybe they crinkle their nose up at you, tom yeah vanessa. They might turn their head away and bite their nails.
Those are all micronegatives. I noticed that she wasn’t showing any microadvantages and a couple of micronegatives, which is the exact opposite of what you would expect. If you just told someone that they got a raise tom yeah, yeah vanessa, I felt terrible.
I felt terrible also because I was aware that she was unhappy tom. Did you notice it right there and then vanessa right there and then right in the moment, tom she’s, like’oh yay’ vanessa, now that I hopefully just taught that to you guys, I’m very curious. If you now start seeing them right away the nice thing about body language, is it doesn’t take a long time once you know what to look for you see it all the time I noticed it right away.
I was like’oh okay. Well, it will be in your next month’s paycheck. You know, I’m just so grateful. Thank you so much for all your hard work.
I really appreciated your work’ she’s like’oh yeah. It was my pleasure. I love the science of people’. Okay, we’re good, but I felt terrible because I was worried that she didn’t like her job I was like’what else could be the reason what else could be the reason’.
I was like’oh my gosh she’s thinking about quitting’. My neuroticism went crazy. My neuroticism was like’she’s going to quit. She hates me she hates the science of people’.
I went all the way down that route when I stumbled upon this study that maybe I was looking into motivation, I was reading a white paper on employee engagement and employee motivation because I was worried about losing her. I found this resource theory. I was like’wait a minute status’. I started to think back to the times when she showed a lot of microadvantages.
One of the times was when we created an about our team page and I put pictures of each person on the page. She was so excited. She was like’oh, I’m going to go, get a new headshot.
I can’t wait’. She showed me like 15 head shots, she’s like’which one has the best body language’. She was so excited.
I didn’t think much of it at the time, but I was like’i wonder if that’s status’, I had a meeting with her and I said radically honest’i offered you a raise last month because I’m so appreciative of your work. I don’t know if that was what you wanted. Is that what you wanted is that if I want to show you how grateful I am for you, what way can I do that for you here at work’ she said’actually, you know I really have been wanting a director role’. I said’great.
Let’s talk about a director role, let’s get you on a plan where we look at titles’. I didn’t realize that there was all these other things like putting her name on the website, putting her in more youtube videos with me. I didn’t realize that that was actually a huge give and so easy for me to give, because I am so grateful for her for me, it was like I was so thankful that we were able to get very quickly very honestly to what her value was.
I think this is the big challenge is figuring out yours and then also trying to figure out every single person that you work with, including your friends and family tom. What’s interesting, though, is the biggest shock for me from your book was how I felt like I had never categorized myself in such a clear way: vanessa yeah tom. What do you do when the person doesn’t know vanessa yeah? You are their decoder.
I think that is the most fun role that we can play in life. If you have someone who is not as self aware like they don’t know, they hadn’t thought about it. That way, you get this amazing gift of being able to unlock for and with them.
I think that’s a lot of responsibility, but I think that is one of the most amazing gifts we can give our fellow human beings what I would do, if I were you is, I would go through the series of’34 questions. Every couple should answer’. This is a really interesting study that this researcher wanted to find out how we get to love. He found that there are three different tiers of relationships in the first phase of a relationship we’re just trying to figure out interests.
It’s like’do you like that. I like that too: what’s your hobby’ and personality traits, that’s the first level. That’s also why I built the first level of the matrix to be personality.
The second level are values, which is why the next levels are around appreciation levels and values. You’re trying to figure out: where does this person? What do they mean? What do they stand for? The last one is how you relate to them like how your relationships can match up. He developed a set of 34 questions to ask to take you through all three levels through just these questions alone.
We actually have a list of them. I can send you a list of them and we can do them together. If you want one day, you actually go through each of these questions and they will take you through.
Not only you getting to know yourself, but also them doing a self exploratory exercise. It is the most amazing two, three five hours you will ever spend with someone going through these questions. That’s, I think how we guide, someone to self know themselves tom.
That would be amazing. We should put a link to that in the show notes: vanessa, yeah tom – that would be really incredible vanessa, if you can it’s amazing to do them all in one session, but it’s a lot, especially if you have someone who’s more introverted. I think it’s very important to respect people’s natural orientations. If someone is an introvert, that means they’re going to use less words in the average day it means they’re, more private and it means they like to think through their answers before saying them.
Extroverts, usually don’t want. Don’t need any thinking time before they share; in fact they tend to verbalize out loud. They verbalize outwardly. If you have an introvert, I would highly recommend sending the questions ahead of time, so they can think about them.
It’s a nice way to respect their personality. And/Or doing a few at a time tom, I love that vanessa yeah tom. What’s one thing that people typically don’t know about themselves that you think everybody should know about themselves vanessa. Actually, it’s something we briefly touched on earlier, but didn’t get to talk about how you self sooth everyone should know two aspects of self soothing.
The first is when you are in anxiety, whether you’re a high neurotic or a low neurotic. Do you like to worry outward? Do you verbalize your worry, or do you shut down and close down when I’m very worried I like to be alone with my journal. I don’t want to talk to anyone. I just want to think about it myself, whereas other people like to worry with others, they like to talk through their worry and that makes them feel calm.
That’s the first thing is: how do you worry? Do you worry alone, or do you worry with others? That’s going to be very important so that, if you’re in one of those really terrible low points, we all hit those points. You know exactly which direction you need to do. Is it out to drinks with friends? Do you have your brigade that you call, or is it home, with a journal and a big glass of wine? Those are two very different paths.
That’s the first thing. The second thing is: how can the people in your life help you self sooth? This might be more of a gender thing. I don’t know a lot of females, a lot of women in my life when they’re very, very anxious.
They don’t know how to ask for help both logistically and emotionally tom. What do you mean? How do you logistic vanessa? There’s two ways of asking for help, and maybe my women in the room will kind of this feels familiar tom, so intriguing, vanessa, yeah, okay, so when a woman is upset about something and some men too usually there’s a logistical issue, let’s say that it’s inlaws coming For the weekend – and they get very stressed out tom, okay vanessa, there’s logistical issues but there’s also emotional issues. They are different, they’re, very different tom in the inlaw example, if they’re coming that’s the logistical vanessa, yes tom, the emotional is’my motherinlaw makes me feel this way’ vanessa, actually we’ll break it down even more closely logistical got to get the guest room ready got to do All the sheets got to primp the towels got to clean the house, so my fatherinlaw doesn’t critique it.
Those are logistical worries, tom, all things that I think about once he starts critiquing it and they’re already in the house, so yeah, but I’m with you, vanessa, yeah yeah. Women are all thinking about that way ahead of time tom that is so right, vanessa yup, then the four emotional worries might be how to make sure that they actually like the house how to make sure that we’re all going to get along this weekend, how to Make sure that we bring up that issue about health that we really need to talk about, and how do we make sure that we actually have a relaxing weekend and it’s actually a good time. Those are eight issues that usually come up around everything and there’s all different issues, but they are totally different ways that we self sooth logistical. Who do you ask for help and how do you ask for help? Is it going to your husband or your kids or your best friend for emotional issues? Do you want to take a few moments? Take a few hours meditate.
Do your thing go for a run, eat really healthy that day, to get yourself in the right mind. Space or do you want to go out with friends, have a really blow out night and work out all your anxiety before they come? If you don’t know that you are going to set yourself up for failure, you’re also setting up the people in your life for failure, the biggest mistake that I think couples fight about – they have the same fights over and over again is they need to ask for Help but they have no idea how to ask for it by the way, if you don’t go through this, that’s how you get complete breakdowns tom, because it’s just bottling it up vanessa right tom: they don’t know where to go and how they deal with it. Vanessa. That’s how you get someone who’s yelling and running around before everyone shows up to try to get things fixed when actually they’re really worried about the emotional stuff tom.
The questions that you just walked us through are the questions. They should be asking themselves vanessa. Yes, very specifically whatever it is, and you do this when you’re in a point of calm, not when you’re already in the worry tom yeah vanessa.
How do I worry? Do I worry out loud? Do I worry by myself who can help me and how can they help? What are the differences between my emotional and logistical worries because they are different if we know that about ourselves, we can then ask for help in better ways, and it sets up everyone in our life for a much more harmonious relationships. Tom yeah, that’s fantastic. Most of what we’ve talked about today is in your book, which is amazing, read this book.
There’s one thing that I’ve heard you mention, which is a two year study, you’re doing on happiness, which you didn’t talk about in the book vanessa didn’t yeah tom. Do you have any nuggets that you’re ready to talk about vanessa? Yes, I have been researching happiness for a long time. That is because I have always been intrigued by my own happiness levels. I felt like I always had a base point like I always felt like.
I was at a set point and I couldn’t go two points above or two points below that set point. I wanted to know if there was ways to hack happiness, we’ve been studying happiness for the past two or three years at our lab. I think the most important thing that I have learned so far and I’m going to put out more research on this – is this idea of learned helplessness.
There’s this horrible study. It was done by martin seligman, it’s horrible. Can I share it tom yeah yeah.
I know the study well vanessa, okay, yeah. This study took dogs and it put the dogs into a cage with a mat that just very lightly shocked them. The dogs would get on the mat and it would shock them very unpleasant experience.
They put them in these cages with these shocking mats and then they changed the cage so that there was a space next to the mats, the dog could move off the mat. The problem is that the dogs who had been on the shocking mat for a long time just gave up. They never went off the mat. In fact, they just sat and took the shocks, even though they could move off the mat, whereas the dogs that didn’t ever see the mat before immediately jumped off the mat and went to the place that didn’t get the shocks.
The idea of this is that we end up learning about our helplessness. When it comes to happiness, we might have learned a pattern in college or in childhood or in our 20s or when we were broke when we were out of a job or whatever. That was even though the mat’s not there anymore, even though the shocks aren’t there anymore. We stay in the same position, because that’s how we’ve always learned to be when it comes to happiness way more than personality way more than decoding people.
I think that we can absolutely change our entire happiness orientation. I think we can unlearn our helplessness to learn to help ourselves tom. That sounds amazing.
When are you going to start putting stuff out on that vanessa? I have one course on that. Already it’s called’the power of happiness’, it’s 10 different steps that we’ve just started learning about. I will give one just to start off with right now. It’s this.
It’s called the skill, the chart of happiness. We end up thinking that happiness comes with the big vacation once a year or the big blowout things once every month. We don’t realize that actually happiness in these very, very small moments every day.
Actually, that is, those are the happiness moments we have to savor. What I highly recommend is for the next few days sit down and make a chart of everything that you do in your life down to making a steaming hot cup of coffee down. To going for a run down to doing laundry, then I want you to rank each of those things on how happy they make you. I don’t mean like happiness like euphoric tom sure vanessa, I mean like happiness like content with your life.
Like’i am content doing this’. I know this sounds crazy, but even like laundry or cooking, something that we often think of as a chore can provide a certain amount of contentedness. If you look at it that way so rate all of those skills, and then I want you to count up the number of hours you spend on each of those skills every day what you’ll end up finding? Is you end up doing what I call happy math happy math is basically looking at the fact that we end up spending the majority of our week, 90 % of our week doing tasks that rank as a one or two or three not very happy on the Happy scale we end up having these really small once a week moments where we’re actually happy really they’re these small little moments, it’s having that amazing cup of coffee or taking in your view, from your window or whatever these little small things. Those minutes add up, and I think it’s about slowly hacking.
How can you add in more and more of those minutes, here’s another tip on the happiness stuff that I just realized would be a really easy one to try. I talked about these little moments of happiness. There’s also these little moments of unhappiness that as humans, we cannot help but infect our entire life. You know how, when you’re sitting at a red light – and you literally question your entire existence – is that anyone does that ever happen to anyone, tom sure, vanessa, yeah you’re sitting at a red light and you’re like’why.
Do I sit in traffic? Why do I drive to work? Why do I do what I work? Why am I doing this? Maybe I should quit my job. Maybe I should move to hawaii. Maybe I shouldn’t have a car’. That’s what happens? One of the hacks that I have found and works really well, is taking those small moments and turning them into what I call’gratitude totems’ a totem is like a symbol or something to remind you of something.
I have a red light by my house that I get stopped at every single day. It doesn’t even matter what time of day and I used to yell at this red light, I would curse at it. Then I realized’wait a minute. This light causes me so much unhappiness’.
I have such a hard time being grateful every oprah magazine ever says’be, more grateful’, who has time to be grateful like no one has time to do that, but now I have time so whenever I am stopped at that red light for the entire red light, I Think about every single thing, I’m grateful for now I get upset if I do not hit, because I know that every time I pull up to that red light, I have a minute and a half just to think about all the things I’m grateful for check. I got my gratitude off. I feel nice and good. I flipped a very unhappy moment for me, that makes me question driving cars and my life and turned it into something that actually makes me very appreciative, tom, that is brilliant vanessa, yeah tom, all right.
Where can these guys find you online vanessa? Everything is at scienceofpeoplecom, that’s our lab and we do experiments come play in our lab. We always have experiments running. We love for people to.
I think right now we’re doing a vocal power quiz. I know yeah, I’m not going to tell you what it is, but you have to go check it out. It’s very cool. We are just very appreciative for all of your support and comments.
So if you have any feedback, let me know tom awesome last question: what is the impact that you want to have on the world vanessa? I want to wake people up. I think that my entire job is to try to get people out of zombieing through social interactions. I think a lot of the times we have conversations on autopilot. We interact with people on social scripts.
My one goal, the impact I wish I could have – is to wake people up out of their social interactions, so they actually have quality conversations and quality interactions and not just quantity tom. That’s amazing vanessa! Thank you so much for coming to the show vanessa. Thank you. Tom guys, let me tell you this is somebody that you are going to want to dive deeply into.
Like I said earlier when I started the book, I was doing it to make sure that I understood the content so that I could come on and do a great interview it so carried me away. I literally wanted to say’captivate’ there, but that seems too obvious. It is literally captivating the book about becoming captivating will arrest you.
It will stop you because every bit of it – and I felt like the book – was trying to teach me a lot about other people, but it was teaching me so much about myself. I am somebody that obsessively thinks about self awareness and where I’m at and what I understand about myself and my natural impulses and what can be overcome and what’s not worth fighting this book, broke everything down and made it all so easy to understand. If you really want to have a good time, drop her name into youtube and just watch the videos one after the other after the other, it is the closest thing to being able to literally just let something autoplay every video that it selects that I have ever Come across she is so good at explaining these incredibly useful ways that humans are.
You will find it infinitely useful in all of the relationships in your life. It is going to make you better. It is going to make your relationships better. It is insane.
I cannot recommend it enough, so please guys dive into that one. This is a weekly show, so if you haven’t already be sure to subscribe until next time, my friends be legendary. Take care vanessa, wait! Tom, hey everybody thanks! So much for joining us for another episode of impact theory.
If this content is adding value to your life, our one ask is that you go to itunes and stitcher and rate and review. Not only does that help us build this community which, at the end of the day, is all we care about, but it also helps us get even more amazing guests on here to share their knowledge with all of us. Thank you guys so much for being a part of this community until next time be legendary. My friends.
